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Phanman

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  1. But look at Ghaspar's formula, and look at how it produces the correct result as demonstrated in his screenshots. In that formula, and as explained by the goodly gentleman, it is CLEARLY applied more than once. Perhaps there is something wonky in that formula, or more likely, there is just one more thing that is, as usual, wonky in this videogame. Even if it was applied once, 0.4*1.75 is still a less than 1 modifier, so the correct element would still decrease damage, which is the main point. And if it didn't, something would still not be accounted for, which is the subsidiary point.
  2. Yes, of course! Instead of worrying about an elemental weapon at all, if we have a neutral weapon in both hands, it seems that the offhand penalty is applied only once, to the damage contributed by the off-hand weapon. Now, that makes perfect sense. When you have a main hand weapon that is elemental and an off-hand weapon that is neutral, it seems that the offhand penalty is AGAIN applied only once, to the damage contributed by the off-hand weapon. Again that makes perfect sense. But as soon as you put the elemental property weapon into the off-hand, the elemental property modifier gets applied TWICE, ie once at the stage of calculating the off-hand weapon's actual damage, which is 80% of its max, and then AGAIN at the stage of multiplying the whole damage by the elemental modifier. Now that's wacky as hell, and if it's correct, Ragnarok is just being wonky as usual. This becomes most obvious when the result of the (Hand Mastery Damage modifier*the Elemental property modifier) is a number LESS than one, as contemplated in my post above, because as icepick shows us [in case we didn't know from basic maths], multiplication by a greater than one figure is an increase, while multiplication by a LESS THAN ONE fraction IS A DECREASE. To create such a situation, we just have to switch some numbers in the very same equation you have so helpfully provided. We'll use the very numbers I had been talking about in my post. Instead of a modifier of 2 from wind offensive vs water3 defensive, we'll start with a modifier of 1.75 from wind offensive vs water1 defensive (eg jujube vs the lowly poring). Instead of a modifier of 0.8 from left hand mastery maxed, we'll use a modifier of 0.4 from left hand mastery 1. Thus instead of LHM modifier*Elemental modifier giving a greater-than-1 multiplier to increase our damage multiplicand, ie 0.8*2 =1.6, we will have the LHM modifier*elemental modifier resulting in a LESS THAN ONE fraction to DECREASE our damage multiplicand, ie 0.4*1.75 = 0.7. So if the weapon is in the main hand, INSTEAD of (171+1*39+0.80*43) = 244.4 multiplied by elemental modifier of 2 = 488.8, we will have: (171+1*39+0.4*43) = 227.2, which will be multipled by elemental modifier of 1.75 = 397.6 And if the weapon is in the off hand, instead of (171+1*43+0.80*39) = 245.2, to be multiplied by elemental modifier of 2 = 490.4, THEN to be multiplied by mastery modifier of 0.8 AGAIN, = 392, we will have (171+1*43+0.4*39) = 229.6, which will be multiplied by elemental modifier of 1.75 = 401.8, then to be multiplied by mastery modifier of 0.4 AGAIN, = 160.72. Comparing both as neutral, which apparently has an elemental modifier of 1, unaffected by the left hand mastery situation, you'd see that a 39 ATK neutral weapon in the off hand would result in higher damage, because there is no multiplication by a LESS THAN ONE FRACTION going on. Hence: (171+1*43+0.4*39) = 229.6, which has no further elemental OR MASTERY modifier to undergo, and hence ends up higher than 160.72. But OBVIOUSLY a correct elemental modifier should always INCREASE damage, because you're hitting with the CORRECT ELEMENT. So the fact that it wouldn't in this case is just wonked the fuck out. (And if the correct elemental weapon in the off-hand with LHM 1 vs defensive element 1 does still result in higher damage compared to a neutral one of the same ATK,then something may be off about the forumla, for example the bonus damage from elements may be added into the calculation rather than representing a strictly multiplicative modifier.)
  3. If having the correct elemental property to deal more damage makes you deal less damage, that is strange beyond strange. If having the correct elemental property to deal more damage does NOT make you deal less damage under the conditions I laid out above, the formula may be slightly off, and may well be so in precisely the manner I described. Considering the uniqueness of the situation if the first line is correct, it would certainly be an oddity germane to dual-weilding.
  4. ...Oh, and wait a minute... So with Left Hand mastery 1 or 2... it should end up with elemental weapons in the off hand being actually useless, even harmful on elemental def below 2. The damage of the weapon would cap at 40% or 50% of what it should be, but the multiplier for element would also cap at 40% or 50% of what it should be. So even where the multiplier should be 2, the max it could become... would be 1; ie the same damage. As to elemental defence of a level BELOW 2, it'd be actually harmful to have the correct element! EG wind vs water 1, instead of a multiplier of 1.75 you'd get a multiplier of 0.7 (40% of 1.75; Left Hand Mastery 1), or of 0.875 (50% of 1.75; LHM 2). And with Right-hand mastery ZERO, assuming it works same as left hand mastery, endows on the MAIN hand should also end up being totally useless. Because eg wind vs water1, you'd get a multiplier of half 1.75, ie 0.875, from Right Hand Mastery Zero. ...And thus in both cases the CORRECT elemental weakness on elemental def below 2 should result in damage LOWER than neutral? ????????????? What The Fuck, Videogame? Although, with that having been said, sometimes 1.5X is just shorthand for "add half of X to X". In that case there would certainly still be an increase in damage, if the elemental ADDITION is what was reduced, rather than the whole actually multiplied by a figure reduced accordingly. It'd be the (incredibly substantial) difference between "Add 30% of the damage, not 75% of the damage" and "Multiply the damage by 0.7, not 1.75".
  5. Wow. According to that formula it certainly appears as though even with Mes, the elemental weapon shoud be in the main hand. Capping the ELEMENTAL MODIFIER for all the damage at 80% of what it should be, so wind vs water3 is only 1.6 instead of 2... really has a crippling effect. Who'd have thought they would not only cap the damage of the off-hand weapon at 80%, but also cap the elemental modifier at that percentage of what it should be? And then apply that elemental modifier to all the damage done, including the damage done by the non-elemental weapon... Ragnarok Online is a very strange videogame. I wonder what the calculations are when it comes to the icepick effect; eg with Icepick and Excalibur in Geffenia.
  6. Yes, but does elemental dagger in the main hand result in higher damage than neutral prop weapon in the main hand, EVEN WHEN the neutral property weapon would far and away outclass the elemental dagger in damage, ATK-wise? Such as would be the case with the Mes? And if so, I am wondering what could possibly be the reason for that, especially considering the whole 80% ATK from the off-hand and all. Since I am assuming elemental weapon in either hand gives the elemental property to both attacks, I have no idea why it should be the case. (But maybe it is still the case even then, because Ragnarok Online is a very strange videogame. Or indeed, perhaps the elemental weapon in one hand does not give its elemental property to the other-hand weapon's attack, and the elemental weapon's damage is always calculated separately. That would mean in the off-hand the elemental weapon is subject to the 80% maximum, sure, so the only damage multiplied by elemental advantage is decreased by 20%, but theoretically some weapon combinations would still result in better damage with your higher ATK neutral prop weapon in the main hand.) _ yes _ Always worth double-checking, especially as Ragnarok Online is a very strange videogame. And I mean, the 80% damage modifier ALREADY works differently on autoattack from how it does on skills. I like both theory and practice, but sometimes a gram of practice is worth a kilogram of theory. _
  7. (#13000)Jujube dagger's ATK should be slightly less than (#1207)Main Gauche's but yet its damage is higher in the main hand? Does that apply in the same way for main-hand daggers with WAY more ATK like (#13027)Mes [3]? .... And if so, what the fuck, videogame EDIT: Also, to see if the 80% of ATK maximum applies to flat number +ATK cards on the offhand weapon, one has to test autoattack with those cards. The offhand weapon's atk doesn't apply at all in the listed skills, as well as no penalty applying to the cards' ATK in those skills. Basically, some skills clearly and wholly disregard the 100% and 80% statement, so gotta test autoattack which apparently DOES apply that statement.
  8. New TalonRO calculator link is Calc.Talonro.com, and some info on the wiki is outdated, but still a hella cool post even today!
  9. Phanman

    Disable Branches

    I may have failed to properly communicate that "branches outside of towns" meant branches in the maps adjacent to towns. I was sufficiently clear about the farming maps including sleepers though. That's a recurrent annoyance; how permanent is the declination?
  10. Phanman

    Disable Branches

    SUGGESTION Disable all kinds of branches (Dead Branches, Bloody Branches, etc) in all maps except specific rental maps/instances Reasoning Branch monsters outside of towns can inconvenience newbies, and branch monsters on farming maps inconvenience farmers. MILDER SUGGESTION MORE DIRECTLY SUPPORTED BY REASONING Disable branches outside of towns, and at popular farming maps and all adjoining maps (Specifically EG Yuno_fild06 and all adjoining.)
  11. I have no useful answer as to how to make the hotkeys behave differently; if anyone knows how to do that it'd be great to find out, yeah. The answer I came up with just involves planning around the busted nature of the equipment-hotkey system: - If you only have 2 of the same gear with different cards for different situations, use one hotkey for it and swap between 'em. - If you have particularly important gear that you want to make no mistake about swapping to, put it on a different hotkey and carry only one of it (eg GTB shield). So in your example you'd go with 2 main gauches and one other 4 slot weapon, 3 different 4 slot weapons, or just 2 main gauches and give up on the third carding set.
  12. Hi all! It seemed to me that this wasn't quite important enough to merit a "Support ticket" so I'm just dropping it here. I suggest that 1) Y'all make sure the rules at https://panel.talonro.com/rules and the rules at https://wiki.talonro.com/Server_Rules are perfectly homogenous, for ease of reference, and 2) Y'all clarify that the buying-store rule as listed in the Server Rules etc does in fact have the caveat mentioned in https://wiki.talonro.com/Buying_Store, namely that the "NPC Value" referred to does not take into account overcharge. The wiki is just a thing that can be edited by "All members of the community" after all, so the entry in "Buying store" on the wiki mightn't be as authoritative as something listed in the hard rules themselves : D Ciao!
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