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Lumeya

Community has become very stale and lazy.

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@Lumeya can i answer some of ur questions? well, im typing anyways.

Yes, most of the time i play alone. Im a solo player thats why. I hope my perspective is accepted here coz if not then what kind of place is this? This is not a single player game, its MMO open-end game. We "use" ppl to reach that end game thing, SQIs and other stuffs. Most of us are not contented with what we have so after being on "top" we wanted more. I already explained on prev posts that its just a repeating cycle. Coz content added will become part of our daily routine then we want something new again.

And to be honest here and be the (insert any negative here) guy who will speak things others dont wanna say, why care about newbies? Its already explained by others that its up to them if they wanna stay or not. Even if this is MMO, u can play alone. Newbies are either server-jumpers or genuine one but u cant really tell which one. They have to help themselves, they need to research.

I dont wanna use my time to help them, what will i gain from that? Its all about give and take here. If i give something, i must have something to take of equal value. And no, when u reach ur own goal, ur not that catalyst ur saying and  ur choices doesnt even scratch the server coz its good even without the "endgame player" in it. when u leave, ppl who know u might "mourn" for a bit then will forget about u in just weeks. Thats how ur existence in a server is. and helping newbies to help in the progress of the server? who says it works? a wide acceptance of an idea is not a proof of its validity.

Now, these names ur floating up, i respect them. They have too much time in their hands helping a stranger.They prolly reached their endgame at some point then they just become bored and helped others. But its their way, not the rest of the players. Its what they want to do in their "free time". You cant say "hey u reached ur endgame, now go help newbies" on players who reached their goal. Ur sounding more and more like that now.

Yeah, i value everything i have including time. And i am here right now playing in this server. Dont say "ur not really here" just coz i dont do things the way u want me to. Everyone is free to do what they want.

You cant please everyone.

(Speaking as a [insert any negative here] guy here coz no one wants to.....)

Edited by PrideFries
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4 hours ago, Lumeya said:

So, I'm noticing the subject turn into the definition of end-game. My question is: Do you play alone? is this a single player game? because it sounds like YOU have nothing to do and it's all about YOU. So, when YOU reach that goal, the GMs will have to add more to satisfy YOU. Do YOU know how long it takes to reach "end-game" for a new player? maybe, and just MAYBE, you can HELP someone get there, using your END-GAME equipment. The equipment you tirelessly grinded for, so you can USE.

This is where it goes wrong. You work to achieve a goal, only to have it sit and be wasted. that's not the point of all your grinding. When you reach an end-game scenario, you become a catalyst for this server. Your choices from that point affect the server as a whole. You either leave, or help PROGRESS the server.

There's a lot of discussion about the GMs offering us more content, but they have consistently done something for almost every month on the 2018 calendar. If your goal is a race to power, then they will NEVER appease you, because it takes twice as much effort to test and balance equipment, than create a rationally balanced type. They would eventually have to annually rebalance ALL gear, and mobs, to keep up with that kind of demand. It's more work, for short term returns, not to mention, creating an even greater gap in power.

An example of a GREAT catalyst, would be "Joan". Now, if you don't know Joan, you must be VERY new to the server, but he has been on main almost daily, helping, convincing people of things, keeping a conversation going for HOURS, while recruiting the ill informed players who require a "Safe Haven". I personally envy him, because he obviously has done it all, but still manages to remain behind and adopt a few, to help lead them in the "correct" direction. That is what we can call a DRIVER of Talonro.

I hold tremendous value in the things I have. I'm sure you do too, but what good are YOU, as a player, if your value is simply locked in for YOU to experience? What value do you think you have, if you hold the main castles in woe, if you don't even have competition? Think about the reason why pvp is dead here. It all links to the SAME thing: Everyone thinks this is a casual server, and there is NO ONE to really aspire to, because they're all afk. Joan is the ONLY name I'd consider as an elite, because he's made it known. I may be wrong, but what other names have come up?

As the title says: Stale and Lazy. You are here, but you are not really here.

Thank you for reading.

When i came back to TRO i was indeed a solo player. until about april when i became a guild leader. i sometimes sit around yes i am guilty of that usually i do it when chatting to guildies.  i recruit all skill levels from someone who just started to someone who may of been playing for a year to someone who played since it opened up. either way i take all levels on and i try my best to share my knowledge with them (and if its a field of knowledge i aint so familiar in such as HP i rarely play as HP for exsample i direct them to someone who can advise them properly or guides) . il run them through biblian 5 to get their eden gears if they need help. i don't believe in leeching new players for say because i like for them to experience their class so instead i usually host parties in dungeons and gramps during the week to allow them to get envolved and get some exp and some items (party share) while getting to learn their class at the same time.  i am a very guild home person though so i don't usually do as much outside the guild (if someone happens to ask for help or looks like they need help il go help so long as i havent got any plans or anything going on) . so i do try my best to help the new players to the game it just happens to be more in the walls of the guild and see less of it from outside perspective. 

 

End game does take a long time to get to. this is why i agreed to instance more so getting better drop rates in stuff like bungungot and such. for exsample that shield i mentioned. never will beat valk shield even if you happened to get it +10. but more of them around because people WANT to do it would cause a circle. this would actually have a more benefitual effect for a new player. if the drop was good enough for people to do it the shield would go more into circulation and who knows may sell for a reasonable price for a new player to buy and have a nice shield that even if they get to +4 gives a bit of resistance to bosses? yah i may of been talking from an end game view but again not all these instances are made just for end game / SQI only instances. 

 

 

Edited by MasterSlayer

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17 hours ago, Lumeya said:

So, I'm noticing the subject turn into the definition of end-game. My question is: Do you play alone? is this a single player game? because it sounds like YOU have nothing to do and it's all about YOU. So, when YOU reach that goal, the GMs will have to add more to satisfy YOU. Do YOU know how long it takes to reach "end-game" for a new player? maybe, and just MAYBE, you can HELP someone get there, using your END-GAME equipment. The equipment you tirelessly grinded for, so you can USE.

This is where it goes wrong. You work to achieve a goal, only to have it sit and be wasted. that's not the point of all your grinding. When you reach an end-game scenario, you become a catalyst for this server. Your choices from that point affect the server as a whole. You either leave, or help PROGRESS the server.
 

I applaud the dedication, but no sweetums, if you make this comment directly to me, it's a bit of a misunderstsanding. Let me explain it to you: before I quit I was doing what you're claiming against me long before you even realize, and it did not work as well as you think it will. Because I came to the realization it's an inherent problem of the game as a design that fails to make the player stick to the game. I was a WoEr, a casual PVPer and a PVMer that seeked to be a driving force. I helped people get to the point to where I was at, but very little sticked no matter the effort, because it's not just *my* problem as a player, it's the game's design failing to put something to look foward to. I observed that the ones that sticked were because they were seeking friendship (WOE or social guild), and the game had little to do with the stick success rate.

 

And yeah, I know Joan, I talk to him literally daily, mind you.  I know what kind of person he is.

 

Being a driving force is just a minuscule part of what it takes to actually achieve what you plan to achieve. And it's the only thing, as a player, that you can do. But it's not a panacea to the actual underlying issue. Because after you did your effort, it's up to the "newbie" to decide, and that decision will be based on what the game has to offer. Is that clear?

You have to know that my comments are a direct criticism to the game and not the community, because after a long period of observation and comparison to other successful games, I came to understand what makes players stick to a game and it's community.  Basically, *the game is not very good at selling itself to the player*. It's like you're trying to sell me a stinky, dirty shirt like if it was the lastest trend in the market. But hey, the manufacturer (GMs/game designers) can make that dirty shirt be an *actual* trendy t-shirt if they want to.

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14 hours ago, PrideFries said:

I dont wanna use my time to help them

You're underselling yourself sir.

 

Guides like the very ones you've written help people too, and the people to whom that kind of help is valuable do include newbies.

 

(It's true that the thread-starter was talking about helping people directly in game, but still.)

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5 hours ago, Phanman said:

You're underselling yourself sir.

 

Guides like the very ones you've written help people too, and the people to whom that kind of help is valuable do include newbies.

 

(It's true that the thread-starter was talking about helping people directly in game, but still.)

i was talking as the (insert any negative) person on my last comment. ofc thats not the "me" u or others might know of. its the "dark" part of the community who dont wanna speak up. noticed that all the ppl that commented on this topic shared their exp and thoughts, offered ways or solutions. its all about the "plus" side and nothing more. while we dont hear the side of ppl who dont wanna be part of this.

in finding ways to better ourselves, not hearing any negative will cause us to fail.

 

its just like the OP, @Lumeya, justs wants to keep this going by commenting something to talk about again. We dont gain anything from here. It was already explained over and over that "its an inherent problem", "the names she brought up are repectable but not the actual solution", and "its up to the newbie to decide".

We cant just please everyone.

Edited by PrideFries
ohh i forgot the smiley

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I stopped playing cause kaahi got nerfed and when I finally had the nostalgic feeling of playing ragnarok again, everything on talon ro felt too different. Miss me with this eden group stuff. I miss classic 2012 talon ro (if that makes any sense?) so im looking for an even lower rate server with no job changers/warper npcs now. 

But since Origins Ro blows ass with its cruddy GM's im stuck waiting around.

Sucks being a purely pvm player sometimes, I just wanna autobolt solo stuff on prof :l Some of those costumes like that shiba inu one feel too obnoxious to me too, like its borderline high rate server wing costume.

 

I had a good long run on TalonRo. 

Edited by Crothen

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6 hours ago, Crothen said:

I stopped playing cause kaahi got nerfed and when I finally had the nostalgic feeling of playing ragnarok again, everything on talon ro felt too different. Miss me with this eden group stuff. I miss classic 2012 talon ro (if that makes any sense?) so im looking for an even lower rate server with no job changers/warper npcs now. 

But since Origins Ro blows ass with its cruddy GM's im stuck waiting around.

Sucks being a purely pvm player sometimes, I just wanna autobolt solo stuff on prof :l Some of those costumes like that shiba inu one feel too obnoxious to me too, like its borderline high rate server wing costume.

 

I had a good long run on TalonRo. 

If you just want to play Solo PvM you could download rAthena and run your own server for your own enjoyment locally /heh

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7 hours ago, DoucheEnrique said:

If you just want to play Solo PvM you could download rAthena and run your own server for your own enjoyment locally /heh

I only liked to solo on sage since back then it was easier to level as a battle sage in ice dun than it was trying to fit into a party. Another reason i left was the general attitude after all the changes and nerfs was "dont like it? then leave" 

Edited by Crothen
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Well I'm new to the server and maybe I don't have much of a saying, since I'm still in 'early mid game' so to speak. Also probably I'll just repeat stuff that people before me said but just felt the need to and my 2cents. Personally for me RO was always about two things. Party runs and woe/pvp competition. If you're a player not interested in woe and you have all characters maxed out, then not counting events and high profile runs, there's not much more that game can provide. In this case I understand this perfectly why so many people sit around and uses RO like a messenger.

Personally I don't think introducing more powerful items that old players can compete for is the way to go. It sparks so many balancing issues. In my opinion it has to be something that encourages competition, requires constant tactics change and reward is something that all players strive for. I remember back in 2008-2010 when I was playing RO I participated in WOE for two reasons. For me it was fun party event, but foremost it was all about reading on the forums that I cheat. Cuz it meant I played really well (not that it ever happened, lol /heh).  My point is, that the reward doesn't have to be item or costume in the game. Every type of player has different motivations. That you can appeal to. But yeah. Engaging old players to become more active in game they play for years is extremely difficult task. It's doable but the question is how. Which brings me to another point.

I understand that when you play one game for a number of years, you did it all. You also made connections and friends. You invested so much time in lvling and gearing your characters that it's hard to let go. There's also nostalgia that keeps you going back once you decide to quit. But despite all of this there's simply not many more that you can do. Server needs a steady flow of new players, that eventually will replace old ones.  As they grow bored and quit. And sadly there's not that many new RO players. Server needs to attract emaining old RO players, that are scattered across different servers. But this is completely different beast and deserve it's own discussion.

But yeah. Just my thoughts and sorry for broken English. I hope it didn't confuse you to much /heh

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Okay, fine, let's turn this around. Since it seems "everyone does their own thing" is the card at play, let's give everyone an ultimatum?

What is more important to TRO's foundation? the "remaining" player base? or a fresh batch of people who will eventually "donate"? I have met some people for a short period of time, who DID donate, but since my leave, I haven't seen them. Technically, my influence to keep one around, is considered a profiting factor for TRO. Is that important? yes. I not only help create a community that remains, I keep the server financially afloat by contributing my time this way.

To a group of people, that is the ONLY value that matters here. So, now that we are aware of this, are you still going to sit around in your pretty little game and talk about all your costumes? or are you going to just blindly let the population fall and blame it on "oh, it's just an old game"?

I personally think the majority are older people, therefore, have less incentive to continue building something they feel "comfortable" in. As most age, they do become less willing and tolerant. I suffer from that problem, but I would rather look to the "children" (the incoming youth) that appear CONFUSED by all the difficulty in this game, because they are the FUTURE of this server.

Now, to explain that: "Kids" today use phones to do all their "gaming". So, they're not really graphically impressed by a small screen and pixel graphics, they are actually more FITTED to join a game like this, because it looks JUST a bit better on the screen, than a phone. At the same time, they will be more WILLING, as Talonro doesn't have ads playing in-game, so the experience will feel more tolerable without the sudden delays. Now, what's going to PUSH them from this, is the drastic change in difficulty of a game, which most of them don't comprehend or understand. They desire a road map to be taking them by the hand, something the game only MINIMALLY provides.

Spoilers: THE COMMUNITY IS A ROADMAP.

I've met some of these youth, and they ask me why it has to be so hard, and if you don't explain it to them in a way they understand, they won't bother coming here. I've had a group of teens join and leave in 48 hours. That's three willing youth, who could've remained here for another 10 years. Gone.

What that means is:

Less population.
Less competition.
Less voting.
Less RMS reviews. (Guilty of that @_@)
Less funding.
Less cooperation. (parties/guilds)

Now, after reading all that. Tell me again, that you are willing to do your own thing and just let these people NOT have the chance you had, to live among this community and create their own for THEIR generation. They don't understand what this game is, and what it means to the people who stayed with it for a decade and a half. Phone games are grindy already, and I'm sure this is far less of a grind than a modern, generic, korean, phone game, so we're losing a population boom because they're either afraid to ask, or we're too lazy to approach.

You can blame the GMs, lack of content, lack of motivation, I don't really care what your excuse is going to be. I had an excuse too. I was bored. I still come on bored, but as soon as I feel that, it's RIGHT to helping someone who actually looks lost, because what ELSE is there to do? Really? Find those young people and argue about music all day! At least they will come back and talk about your outdated iphoneX!

Thank you for reading.

P.S. Caribbean Crush Tea is wonderful /awsm

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To each his own, Lumeya.

I guess this will be my last post on this forum for awhile. I honestly dont see any point in continuing on this server. Harsh words but these are my two cents.

Perhaps I'll be back in a year, six months, seven days..who knows.

But for now, I guess this is it for my time on tRO. :)

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42 minutes ago, -Tristram said:

To each his own, Lumeya.

I guess this will be my last post on this forum for awhile. I honestly dont see any point in continuing on this server. Harsh words but these are my two cents.

Perhaps I'll be back in a year, six months, seven days..who knows.

But for now, I guess this is it for my time on tRO. :)

Bye. :)

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I joined Talon in late 2013, quit in Mar 2016, back to play for ~ 1month during Aug 2017, and have been inactive till now.

During that period, I've seen the decline of population, from 2k dropped to 1k atm ( according to the number on website )

Yes as Seiren said more people will join if people are willing to write more reviews, do more advertisements, but the number keep declining.

RO being an old game is one of reason, but the amount of nerfs that make other classes, many builds become useless or just unnecessary. That discourages people imo.

Your fav classes become useless, your character is irrelevant in party and just a nuisance if you actually try to do anything.

Imo, tRO should try and add some customizations, some thing like gears and cards that boost specific skills so they would become more useful, much more useful not just a little boost. People would have more motivation to actually try and play other than the mainstream classes.

Thus more parties for new players to join, more active pve will more likely make new players stay instead of quiting after few days  ( atleast for pve player like me )

Just some opinions from the decreased.

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I would argue that Za, is indeed, most likely an angel.

As are most of her friends. Everyone's been so kind. I'm new to the game. I try not to look too many things up. But the game seemed rather small. 

I'll explain what I mean. I would preface by saying I have played this game, not just this server, for a total of five days now, the sixth is starting as I write this. Anyway, I come from a WoW background. For those unfamiliar with the acronym, it stands for World of Warcraft. I've been fortunate enough to experience the full scope and spectrum of the game. Which means I started on release (2005 in EU) One of the many things that is killing server communities there, is ease of access. This comes in the form of flying mounts, dungeon queues, etc.

How this translates to Ragnarok as far as I've seen is. There is this NPC a Warp Girl. She provides free warps to everywhere (I think?) I like exploring myself, during exploring I ran into nobody. What it did do. Was give me some knowledge. I now know where Kobolds are for example. I've also stumbled across Glast Heim, I panicked the map before it as things were fast and strong. So I teleported around and went into the portal There was glast heim, with many entrances. I went back to Prontera afterwards. The world actually looks a lot bigger that way.

I don't have an easy fix, that won't get people upset. As removing quality of life things from a game does not go over well.

There are a few things one could try though. Make the Warp girl only warp you to cities. In a world of magic, such connections between cities seem logical. However, remove the dungeon warp ins, and what not. You'll have to learn where these things are. Or you'll have to communicate with other players (Do you have a warp to X, or Y)

 

On the whole, it's hard to comment on class balance. I only really know Priest, and not even my own class I know all too well. I've noticed however, and this might just be silly of me. But there are these REALLY strong boss monsters. MvPs? I think that was the term. Anyway, they remind me of open world raid bosses. And when people can solo them, either they need a buff, or solo classes need a nerf. One can also void the effectiveness of cards on them. People working together to overcome odds is a beautiful thing :) 

 

Additionally, I've heard my friends speak fondly of "Monster of the week" and how they met during these events from what I understand and hear, that feature was a whole lot more engaging than TamTam picking a map. Though I was thankful for him having picked Glast Heim when I started, because I got plenty of copper from Evil Druids and the Ghouls there.

 

Take everything I said with a grain of salt, though. These are, in a most literal sense, the ramblings of a noob. 

Edited by Ariatras
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10 hours ago, Nagara said:

Your fav classes become useless, your character is irrelevant in party and just a nuisance if you actually try to do anything.

From my understanding we have not changed any skills or classes over the past years. Not sure where this comes from. Lol Not to mention that we never nerfed a class to become useless. If you mean that we nerfed play styles that were totally game breaking (99def Paladin) then yes, guilty of that. I am not too worried about any declines in numbers. The server does well for its age and we got lots in the pipe for 2019.

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*Lights up a cig & pops open a bottle*
 

I don't know... Everything seems fine to me.
But then again... I ain't sober much.

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Thank you all for making this topic a lengthened discussion. There were some great ideas shared here, and thankfully, it got the attention of our dear GMs, so we know they are actively listening in. Just remember, if you are already part of this community, don't look to the GMs for answers to this discussion. GM's can't hold the hands of every new player that comes into the server, that's what we are here for. It was my pleasure reading through all of your replies, and I hope we can all work together, through our differences in opinion, to grow this community.

 

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I think I'm late for the discussion, but I want to drop an opinion that people have yet to mention... I think (I didn't read EVERY SINGLE POST, but at least 70% of them).

Competition.

The real end game of Ragnarok in general, was meant to be War of Emperiums, and for the non PvP oriented players, there was MvP competitions. The thing is, there are many reasons why both WoE and MvP competitions are lacking. WoE is a forgotten feature, and MvP competition (I mean, the big ones. Valky, Satan, Bio MvPs) has little incentive with how long the server has ran; also the fact that MvP cards can be obtained from an NPC, also hurts MvP competition. 

In the one and only server that I've played before this one, we used to fight bio lab's Sniper MvP for 8 hours in 12 vs 12 parties in order to get a Combat Knife; things of that nature. You needed individual skill and teamwork to achieve those things, and it didnt really get old till Combat Knives were able to be gotten from other sources... but the feeling of improving and winning against the competition, or the sore feeling of losing, those things were SO ADDICTIVE.

WoE was also the same, winning the WoE and bragging in the forums for a week was the prize for winning the most LvLs. Competition is what makes end game much more rich and that's something that was lost in TRO due to how the rewards have become stale. Now, WoE... WoE not being that crowded nowadays, it may have something to do with not having many reasons for playing it either. Castle economies don't really matter, because you can't create Bryhns and stuff (Okolnir is used as a seal for SQIs) and the other godly items are gotten through SQIs as well so...

In terms of newbies staying, which was the main point of the first post... I would say, I stood in this server because I just love ragnarok, and I love ragnarok mostly because of what the end game is, so I just see the road to getting to end game kind of a necessity and not something to be enjoyed. In order to make newbies stay, they have to feel like the game is fun all throughout, and party play is what makes it that way.

I think the server is fine the way it is though. If WoE improves, I would be happy. If MvP competition also improves, I would be happy as well; but if the server stays as it is, I'm fine with it.

Edited by Xqst

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5 hours ago, Xqst said:

also the fact that MvP cards can be obtained from an NPC, also hurts MvP competition.

I've always looked at the availability of MVP cards from NPC's as one of the reasons why talon didn't suffer the same end as other servers. What I notice in smaller servers is that one guild would get overpowered, like they'll have GTB, Ghostring and Satan Morroc, Valkyrie gears... so new players or guilds simply stop playing instead of trying to catch up. The other good thing about NPC's selling cards and items is that it keeps prices stable.

One suggestion I have to make MVP card drops more interesting would be to make the cards dropped from them to have a random +1 stat bonus to either str, agi, dex, vit, int, luk

 

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Well we got vanilla for a slower pace but one thing about vanilla is ppl who invest in vanilla woe they juz log in for woe then log out. not enough vanilla content to sustain it.

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