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Ghaspar

SinX | Dual-Wielding (Basic Mechanics)

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9 hours ago, Phanman said:

Additionally that seems to result in multiplying by a negative value at off-hand skill level 5

That was a typo. I have missed to put OHP (Off Hand Penalty %) which has to be added. Also, the 0.80 is not fixed, it should be replaced as OHP as well. The formula has been revised accordingly. Apologies for that. (Been working on my monthly report when I did that /heh)

The Revised Formula then is:

Damage Output = (MC+1*MH+OHP*OH)*EP*[OHP+(0.29-0.07*Off Hand Skill Level)]

Let's apply that, shall we? Using the same weapons, Main Gauche and Jujube Dagger

Off Hand Level 1: (171+1*43+0.40*39)*2*[0.40+(0.29-0.07*1)] Damage Output = 284 Double Attack = 568 Actual (In-Game) Damage = 563
Off Hand Level 2: (171+1*43+0.50*39)*2*[0.50+(0.29-0.07*2)] Damage Output = 303 Double Attack = 606 Actual (In-Game) Damage = 603
Off Hand Level 3: (171+1*43+0.60*39)*2*[0.60+(0.29-0.07*3)] Damage Output = 322 Double Attack = 644 Actual (In-Game) Damage = 643
Off Hand Level 4: (171+1*43+0.70*39)*2*[0.70+(0.29-0.07*4)] Damage Output = 342 Double Attack = 684 Actual (In-Game) Damage = 683
Off Hand Level 5: (171+1*43+0.80*39)*2*[0.80+(0.29-0.07*5)] Damage Output = 362 Double Attack = 724 Actual (In-Game) Damage = 722

Off Hand (Level 1 to Level 4) Screenshots (Level 5 already done in the guide above)

Spoiler
Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4
638497939_Elemental3(forPhanmanL1).jpg.8cd24f8cfd8716bd0beb5eeb5a2459d7.jpg 1687151623_Elemental3(forPhanmanL2).jpg.a48bcad04fcdc6c5ddbc51155bc20764.jpg 1910918475_Elemental3(forPhanmanL3).jpg.c825248f0ee4bcfc3e008884d2dc4426.jpg 532736028_Elemental3(forPhanmanL4).jpg.86bab423d37cde62aad416499a0b4228.jpg

 

Now, that's as close as I can get. 

9 hours ago, Phanman said:

I have no idea whatsoever where (0.29-0.07*Off Hand Skill Level) came from, so you lost me there : O

Me neither /heh. But this is the Equation of Element Multiplier Penalty I got to get the best results. At least we got it. /ok

9 hours ago, Phanman said:

But regarding the earlier formula,

THAT was just plain wrong. I stand corrected, and I appreciated the analysis you've given. Made look into it. 

Guide Updated. /gawi

 

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This is how Engineers make a Guide :D good job @Ghaspar , greeting engineer /bo

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48 minutes ago, ~Lunox said:

This is how Engineers make a Guide :D good job @Ghaspar , greeting engineer /bo

Hi @~Lunox!!! /bo Nice seeing you landing in here /no1

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@Phanman wew..you sure are complicating things with your intricate formulas, man. Here's a quick suggestion: why not have an array of daggers and decide which pairs are the best to use depending on your situation? That's what I do, and that's what I think most of the (few) DD's on this server do anyway. Just have fun and well, tone down on the math and all. It kinda spoils the scene. /heh 

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Well, tbh, I appreciated it. It improved the guide and leads the readers more correctly. It's always better seen early than late. /ok

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2 minutes ago, Ghaspar said:

Well, tbh, I appreciated it. It improved the guide and leads the readers more correctly. It's always better seen early than late. /ok

yup, i do too. but let's be honest here, dual wielding always casts a shroud of mystery and amazement to wielders and other players alike and that, by itself, is the very reason why I chose to go down the path. i am a sucker for formulas as well as i seek to maximize my damage output in every way possible, but i try to keep the complicated stuff to a controllable level, to strike a balance where it gets quite geeky but still super fun nonetheless. 

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Posted (edited)

This took way longer than I expected and still don't feel 100% satisfied with the outcome but I (probably) won't spend more time on this:

TalonRO - Mechanics - Dual Wield (a video guide)

So to summarize:

  • +% damage bonus is applied only to the main hand.
  • I remembered correctly, the off hand can not double attack. Only the damage of the main hand gets doubled. But...
  • ... if there is a weapon with VVS / Ranker bonus in the off hand Double Attack will double the VVS / Ranker bonus in the off hand.
  • Skill Attacks don't care for Dual Wield at all. Not just do they ignore the ATK of the off hand weapon they don't even check if you are dual wielding at all and what Mastery Level you have. You could skip all levels of Hand Masteries and your Dual Sword Soul Breaker would still do full damage.
  • Except for these cases the rest boils down to: Calculate each hands damage just like for a regular single weapon attack and multiply the total damage by the mastery damage factor.

Lastly there are some irritating deviations of per-hand-damage but when adding everything up the totals stay the same. Probably comes from weird coding or maybe rounding errors. I'd have to study the source code to make sense of this.

@Ghaspar
I don't know why but for some reason some of your numbers and especially those formulas seem off. Maybe you forgot to consider some factors like size penalty?

@Phanman
Hope this clears some questions you had.

Edited by DoucheEnrique
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^Thank you for this @DoucheEnrique! I have learned things in this video which deserve mentioning in the guide (you may have not noticed some of them). I will update the guide inserting these details and expanding it more. Allow me guys for some time. /gawi

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