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Colcactus

Bookslapper Nerfs

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Uh oh. I have a 99/70 Professor with pretty serious gears including the SQI. I can solo a bunch of MVPs including DL, TG, White Lady, Drake, and any of the easy ones. I was building up to see how dynamic I could make my Prof while soloing since most of my gameplay is solo. I have a huge problem now though since Iduna launched.

I can't cast while autobolting. Uh Ohhhh. 

No fog, no double cast, and most importantly no SP from Health Conversion.

If I want to regen sp in combat (especially needed in thors or fighting mvps) I have to wait for double bolts to finish casting while i stand there getting smacked before I can hit HP conversion. When I'm fighting MVPs the number of times Kaahi procs... is high. I haven't tested yet but I have a feeling this is going to become an extremely expensive character as I have to spam SP items to live in any serious fight. 

The allure of a bookslapper was extreme power, survivability, and high end solo game play. Without the ability to cast while bookslapping that all disappears. I assumed the class allowed this as a feature when I made it. It kinda made sense that certain minor skills like Fog, Double Casting, and Health Conversion were usable in combat. They're ancillary abilities that augment your build. 

Double cast not being usable in combat is ok, it has a cast time after all.

Fog is so important for damage mitigation but if I have to lose an instant cast skill it's fine.

Health Conversion is the deal breaker. Even with 100 vit, 150 int, 30% pdodge, and the right armor/shield combo Kaahi just drains SP in any serious fight.

This very well might have ended my progression on Professor and I feel terrible.

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I'm inclined to believe it is actually intended, at least from what I gathered from videos and mentions about official gameplay. So basically it's a 'fix', not a 'nerf'. Same as people cry about HW's Storm Gust cheesiness, that is lost a bit in Iduna. I know how you feel, but well - there will be more challenge to some battles :D For some MVPs I didn't use Kaahi anyway (but meat with poodles), or just use lower level. And with high int you won't waste much on GJs. So it's not that bad.

  • Wah 2

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Question - do you have to stop to use another skill while auto-attacking on another char? IE have to stop to self-buff while auto-attacking with a Sniper, or LK, or whatever. My game isn't functioning right now so I can't test this myself... but if you can still do that on other chars, then there's no reason why it would be that way with Hindsight. The reason is really simple - Hindsight is not what is causing you to auto-attack, that's a normal mode of attack regardless. The Hindsight skill is only the proc chance for bolts. So if you can still use a skill while auto-attacking on another class, then Hindsight is broken and interfering with normal attack mode. Even with an after-cast delay present after an auto-casted bolt (normal behaviour, not applied to subsequent auto-casted bolts), you should still be able to use other skills, even if they stop you from continuing to attack (also normal behaviour).

Someone wanna test this?

Edit: The comparison to Storm Gust isn't the same, because Hindsight is not a damage-dealing skill in itself. It's basically just a trigger to automatically use your skills.

Edited by Sachi

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That’s a good question. A fair comparison would be a hunter bird causing the rest of a hunter’s skills to be locked out until after the damage ticked. That would seem to be an unintended nerf to hunters. 

@Verya I know it’s intended, I used the word nerf anyways. 

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I've asked another player to test it, as I don't have a hunter or a sniper, and they said that the auto cast blitz beat isn't causing any delay. I wasn't the one doing the testing, so I can't be 100% sure, but maybe we can hope that it will be reversed in the future.

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Blitz has a 1 second ACD, so if it's a global change, it should prevent you from using any skill during that time after it procs.

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Auto Blitz and Blitz Beat are a bit different in terms of mechanics (number of hits and damage divided by number of enemies iirc, and yeah, no delay). Though Auto Blitz share with Autospell procs the ability to proc on misses, which is one of the main differences of Autospell and any autocasting stuff triggered by items. But yeah, Auto Blitz triggers no ACD, item autocasting triggers no ACD, Autospell procs do trigger it. When normally attacking and casting a skill (like some selfbuff for ex, as you suggested), you stop attacking and cast it, click again - you continue autoattack, same as before. Bolt ACD is big, you wont be able to cast anything with 190ASPD unless you're staying in bragi :D. Still, for me it's not that odd to expect from it some special behaviour. IRO Wiki Classic has this note:

"Skills triggered by hindsight do not have any cast time, but do have cast delay. Cast delays, however, will not prevent bolts from being triggered via hindsight. As a result, it is possible to fire off bolts very quickly. The skills will all retain their special effects on their targets; Frost Diver will freeze, Fire Ball will have splash damage, etc."

I know there are differences in skill mechanics in iRO and kRO sometimes, and afaik we tend to be closer to former. Still I yet to see any video or hear from anyone who played there if our current skill mechanic is the same as there. Basically, what Boreas said in Bug Report post. So most likely we won't see any change on this part, unless rAthena way is different from iRO way and it is the actual rAthena way, not just a bug. What we might suggest, and what is more likely to happen, is something of "add matk% to Tome's item description; add new SQI bonus - proc Health Conversion on hit or disable/lower Autospell procs ACD or whatever", with upcoming SQI revamp.

Storm Gust was there just because in pre-Iduna HW could easily and with basic gear solo kill a lot of stuff. New mechanics are that monsters aren't staggered that much by SG anymore. Necros aren't sleepwalk anymore, Thor requires patience, etc, I'm still curious to try GQS and Mammoth. So people complain everywhere 'meh, nerfed HW' (it's also about JT rate and overall damage but still), while I find these 'nerfs' just interesting and challenging.

P.S. Good like with making client to work, Sachi :D

 

 

Edited by Ver

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I also noticed that Kaahi procs faster. I think of it as a buff though because I can use lower level Kaahi and not worry about dying.

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The problem is with MVPs whose skills hit hard enough you need max lvl kaahi. You’re hoping they melee you enough between casts that you heal up. 

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Oh yeah, I was pretty bummed when I realized this (triggers are causing multiple cast delay instances, stacked on eachother.)

Edited by theakrabb

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Upon testing this further, I realized something: Hindsight (Autocast skill) bolts do NOT trigger the after cast delay. What's triggering it is other sources that create bolts (Alchemy glove, thunderstorm cloud, gazeti card, kasa card, chilly spellbook, etc.) I just tried soul linked level 10 bolts with double cast and I could use health conversion just fine, it "feels" the same it's always "felt." It's when I wear my items I run into problems and get locked out of casting entirely.

Edit: I think this is how it used to be, triggering only from items. I can still use health conversion or start casting a level 10 fire bolt, but I have to time it right, when no items autocasts are triggering. I couldn't see after cast delay in skill icons in the past, so it's hard to know if it's the same as before Iduna. But I can work with this!

Edited by theakrabb

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I can confirm that this actually was the case even before Iduna. Using Gazeti Card for example will produce a delay on cold bolt before you can use a skill, but not the Auto Spell skill. However, it would "not" put a delay on the Gazeti Card auto cast itself. So for example: Gazeti taking effect puts the cold bolt skill on cooldown just like what was happening with Auto Spell before I reverted that change on Iduna. However, Gazeti card can still take effect "during" that cooldown, you just can't use other skills during that delay. Hope that makes sense. :)

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